A World of STEM: A Sense of Belonging

In this episode of the EDII Catalyst, Dr. Juliana Vidal (Senior Program Manager, Higher Education at Beyond Benign) joins us to share her experiences as an international student and her transition from academic research to the not-for-profit sector.

Hosted by Dr. Emily Albright, this episode explores the role of meaningful mentorship in shaping Dr. Vidal’s career, her passion for science communication, and the unique challenges (and unexpected benefits) of pursuing chemistry in a second language.

Transcript begins below video.

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The following transcript has been edited for length.

Today, we’re very excited to have Dr. Juliana Vidal with us. She is currently the Senior Program Manager, Higher Education at Beyond Benign, a non-for-profit company that develops and disseminates green chemistry and sustainable science educational resources to different educators and students in the community to help them practice sustainability through chemistry.

Can you share with us a little bit about your journey in STEM? What inspired you to pursue chemistry, and how did that path lead you from Brazil to Canada and eventually your current role at Beyond Benign?

I was born and raised in Brazil in a city called Juiz de Fora (my state is very known for our cheese—it’s delicious), and I learned about chemistry in high school. My high school chemistry teacher had a big influence on me. I always liked how in chemistry, you can explain microscopic concepts and thinking at the very molecular level—to me, that was magic, right? I really wanted to learn more about it. Before that, I wanted to do marine biology because I really like whales, but that didn't work out. So I went for chemistry.

I did my Bachelor's degree and in the very last year of my undergrad, I was reading an environmental chemistry book. There was one page about what green chemistry was, explaining the field and everything. I thought it was so wonderful how [with green chemistry] we can think about human health, the environment, and making our processes and products more sustainable. I really wanted to study more about it.

That was in the very last year of my degree, and I didn't know what I was going to do. So I did my Master's and my supervisor, he tried to make the project as green chemistry-related as possible. I was going to teaching labs and getting silver residues and transforming those into metallic silver using old parts of a stove—something very old, very hardcore.

After my Master’s, I really wanted to learn English. I really wanted to try something different. I really wanted to see snow. I regret that decision—I saw a lot of snow, a lot in Newfoundland. We had Snowmageddon, so it snowed like a meter of snow—it was crazy. But I decided to move to Newfoundland. I researched green chemistry in Canada, and I found a professor: Dr. Francesca Kerton at the Memorial University of Newfoundland. I emailed her and I was like, “I really want to learn more about green chemistry.” And she invited me to be part of her group. So I came to Canada with my husband and my dog in 2017.

During my PhD, I was very worried and aware of science communication. I think science communication is such an important part of the things we do; you need to be able to communicate what we're doing in the lab and why it's important and why people should care about it, because otherwise, no one's going to care about it. It’s not enough for you to be an amazing researcher—you have to be a really good communicator in order for everything to work.

I started as an intern for a nonprofit called Beyond Benign, and I was thrilled because Beyond Benign was co-founded by one of the co-founders of the 12 Principles of Green Chemistry and the first human in the world to have a PhD in green chemistry. I was like, ‘okay, I can learn from the source, and I can actually test out all of my communication skills at Beyond Benign!’

I finished my PhD, and I still didn't know what I was going to do... So I became a postdoctoral researcher at McGill with Professor Audrey Moores. I really loved the project; I was working with biomass and shrimp and using mechanochemistry, which I think is super cool. At the end of my postdoc, I really decided: ‘I think I can make a difference in the system outside of the system.’ I decided to join Beyond Benign full-time, and that’s what I'm doing now—and why I'm here with you.

I really like what you brought up about science communication. Even for someone who is an English native speaker, it's still really hard to communicate science. I can imagine that's an even bigger barrier when English is not your first language.

I think [communicating complex scientific topics in a second language] is a challenge, but it's also an opportunity. I feel like because English was not my first language, I had to try and find other ways to convey the message that I wanted. For example, through infographics, animations and other methods. To me, it was an opportunity; because I didn't have that skill, I tried improve another one.

That's a great point—all forms of communication help play into that. Looking back at your graduate and your postdoc experiences, were there any moments or mentors who made a lasting impact that helped shape your trajectory towards where you are today?

Mentorship was (and still is) such a big part of my journey to where I ended up in life. My PhD supervisor friend is still a big part of my life; we’re still in contact and we see each other in conferences all the time. She really inspired me to embrace this aspect of myself—all the communication I wanted to do—and she volunteered me to do a lot of things. At first I was like, ‘why am I doing this in the first place?’ But then those things that I did, they somehow connected to other things that I was doing. I was really thankful for her because I feel like some supervisors just want you to be in the lab doing research, and that's all. But she was really helpful in getting me outside of my comfort zone and doing things that I never thought I was going to be doing.

Even after I decided to leave academia, I talked to a lot of people because of my volunteer work who had a lot of different jobs. They weren’t profs; they were industry people, and they had different types of jobs and careers. That opened my mind to all the things I could do if I wasn’t feeling comfortable where I was. I think mentorship played the most important role in my journey—and I’ll just give a shout out to Fran (Dr. Francesca Kerton) because she has been a big part my whole career journey.

We talk a lot on this podcast about how critical mentorship is—not only at the supervisor stage, but also mentorship of others in your lab. Your interactions with everybody play a major role in others’ journeys and can be really impactful.

Especially in chemistry, we feel encouraged to go down the traditional academia route: getting your Master's, your PhD, and then becoming a professor. But there are a lot of other jobs out there that are non-academic; it's very interesting that you were able to navigate that and find your way into a not-for-profit company. Can you talk a little more about what that process was like for you? Did you plan to go to the academia route and then switch, or did you always think you were leaning towards outside of academia?

To be honest, it was a painful process. It felt I was betraying my community, and I felt like I was disappointing people because of the decisions I made. But at the end of the day, people weren’t disappointed and I wasn’t betraying anyone; I just felt like that because I was just immersed in that environment all the time, thinking that the people around me expected me to do specific things. I like teaching, but I was so drained all the time because I wanted to do a good job. It just wasn’t sustainable for me.

When I talk to people outside of my career—especially Dr. Natalie O'Neil, who also worked at Beyond Benign, and Dr. Amy Cannon, our co-founder—they left well-established jobs in academia to go and pursue unique goals. It felt like a sign saying, ‘this is a possibility, and I can do that too.’ Making the decision was very hard, but once I did it, I felt okay with it and it was easy. A lot of the project management skills that I acquired through my PhD, I still use all the time. I still go to chemistry conferences all the time, I talk to people from research, I talk to people from education…. I'm still very immersed in the world of chemistry, just in a different way. So while making the decision was very hard, once I did it, I was fine.

It sounds very cliché, but [I would recommend listeners] just be very aware of what your heart tells you to do. It really felt like the whole world was telling me to pursue a specific path and I kept thinking, ‘oh my God, I'm going to betray everyone if I follow a different path.’ But once I actually decided, ‘okay, I'm going to do this and give it a try,’ it felt very natural to me.

I think that's a really good message for everybody thinking of taking a chance. Sometimes doing something that scares you can really be worth it. Looking at all the different options that are out there is really important. Change is always scary, no matter what that change is.

My current role in research administration doesn’t follow the traditional academia path, but I’m still making an impact. I still get to be involved with the research and I still get to do all the things I really enjoy. I think it's really important message for everybody to look at their options, and understand that you don't have to stay on a certain path just because you feel like it's the next expected step. You’ve just got to find what aligns with what you enjoy best and continue.

You've been involved in some amazing global initiatives: the co-chair of the Global Conversation on Sustainability (a joint project of the International Younger Chemists Network and the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry), a national representative on the IUPAC Committee on Chemical Research, a member of the United Nations Environment Programme, and an Associate Editor for Thieme’s Sustainability and Circulatory NOW Journal. Can you tell us a bit about some of the initiatives that you've been involved with?

I’ve really enjoyed all of the initiatives I’ve been involved with due to the set of skills they've given me. One that I really think was very interesting was with the Chemical Institute of Canada. They had a governance task force to analyze the structure of the organization, suggest improvements, and increase performance. To me at the time, the CIC was just conferences—as a student I was like, ‘oh yeah, what does the CIC do? Conferences.’ Through my being in this task force, I really came to understand the whole concept of empowering Canadians, people in Canada who are doing chemistry, technologists, and engineers supporting people and catalyzing this change. As a student, I never knew that the CIC was involved to this degree because my brain was like, ‘conferences.’ Learning more about the global role of societies in our community was really cool, and really something that I enjoyed.

Being part of the major group for chemicals and waste at the UNEP was also very interesting; I never knew there were so many things necessary to make a decision possible. It was just very fun to see how things work in different ways and what our role is in these things.

I do say yes to a lot of things… which can be a problem. I think I'm still trying to learn how to say no, but I feel like all of these volunteer opportunities gave me something—some skill or a different perspective on the things I would like to do or keep doing.

Building soft skills and different types of skills is an important part of the research skillset. Whether you’re in academia or in industry, you need those skills. You don't want to burn yourself out and say yes to everything, but finding opportunities that really align with your interests is important, especially in grad school.

What final piece of advice do you want to give everyone listening today, whether they're an international student, woman in STEM, or just any kind of researcher who might be in the same situation or going through experiences similar to your own?

When I was younger, whenever this question came up in panel discussions I would always say, ‘get out of your comfort zone, try new things!’ I think that’s so important. I've always had this ‘yes’ attitude, and that's why I moved countries. I've been involved with so many different projects just by saying ‘yes, let's try and let's see what happens,’ and by trying to make the best out of this moment.

As I get older, I really think that something very important to me—and this is very cliché—is the whole empathy aspect of everything we do; just trying to treat people the way you'd like to be treated. I know it sounds very simple, but, as I went through my career path, I saw all of this hierarchy and bureaucracy and just… people forget where they came from and they forget they're dealing with people who are struggling every day, who also have issues in their lives. My motto is just try to be gentle, kind and hold true to your values. Just be yourself. Be authentic. Be gentle, honest, and just care about people.

That's the root of all of this—EDII work is about being a good person to everyone; being kind, trying to understand, gain that perspective and learn about different cultures. That's the whole point of this podcast: to learn a little bit more about somebody that you might not have met before. Let’s take a question now from the audience.

Dr. Cathleen Crudden: What can we do better to mitigate valorizing other careers? I'm really proud of the fact that I have students going into a whole bunch of careers, and I think that this idea that the only valuable career is one that is the same as mine isn’t fair or accurate. Do you have any advice on how we can, as a community, do better?

What would have helped me feel better as a student—and I'm talking in a very personal sense—would be knowing that these options exist in my work environment. If I had the opportunity to talk to people when I was in my PhD, if [alternative options] were something that people had come to my university to talk specifically about, I think that would have helped students like me become aware of alternative possibilities and see the value in them.

I wasn’t aware that was knowledge I could acquire outside of my university and outside of my PhD environment. I feel like if we had higher education institutions showing their students what other people are doing and the value they bring without students having to look for this information, that would be very helpful.

We always like to end on a fun question: what is your favourite chemical or element and why?

I like carbon because I worked with Biochar in my PhD—it's a carbon material, and I worked with it a lot. It’s all carbons every day. There's no specific reason for that; I just think it's cool. And also, whenever Fran (Dr. Francesca Kerton) went to a conference like the ACS where they have little elements you can pick up, she gave me a carbon. So I was like, ‘okay, this is me now! That's my favourite element.’

Thank you all for the invitation. It was super fun. I have LinkedIn, Instagram and Bluesky, so if you want to chat at any point, please feel free to reach out to me. I'm happy to talk at any point.

Thanks, Juliana. It was really great having you here.